Unlocking Distressed Property Secrets with Commercial Realty Expert Michael Bull

[00:00:00] Have you ever thought about buying distressed commercial properties or distressed in foreclosure

[00:00:05] commercial properties or notes?

[00:00:06] Well, if you have or you haven't, but you might be interested in that, then you need

[00:00:11] to listen to this episode.

[00:00:15] Welcome to The Brick and Mortar Money Show, the podcast dedicated to helping business

[00:00:20] owners and professionals achieve wealth, autonomy and control through commercial property

[00:00:26] ownership.

[00:00:28] As we unlock the power of real estate to transform your business and investment strategies, whether

[00:00:33] you're seeking to expand, invest or gain more freedom in your entrepreneurial journey,

[00:00:39] this is your destination for insightful stories, expert advice and actionable strategies.

[00:00:46] Welcome.

[00:00:48] Hey listeners, welcome today to the show.

[00:00:53] I have the distinct honor and privilege of having a real commercial real estate

[00:00:58] expert on the show today, Michael Bull.

[00:01:00] He's out of the great city of Atlanta, as other people would say, hotlanta.

[00:01:06] He's got an agency that he's developed over the last 26 years with about 50 agents

[00:01:11] and man, he's doing a lot of things, not just running a commercial real estate

[00:01:16] agency but he's, which is Bull Realty.

[00:01:20] He's a CEO, but he's also the president of the office group.

[00:01:24] He's hosted and continues to host the America's Commercial Real Estate Show online on YouTube,

[00:01:30] on podcasts, been doing that I think since 2010.

[00:01:33] And he's also the creator of the Commercial Agent Success Strategies training session

[00:01:38] or training system where you can learn to take your game to the next level if you're

[00:01:41] in commercial real estate.

[00:01:42] So a lot of experience, a lot of success and a lot of wisdom.

[00:01:47] So Michael, welcome to the show today, man.

[00:01:49] Paul, thank you.

[00:01:50] Appreciate being on.

[00:01:51] Yeah.

[00:01:53] The one thing I didn't mention, and hopefully you get into this, is that you also have

[00:01:56] a standup routine.

[00:01:57] So I'm excited about that.

[00:01:59] I try not to do any jokes since people probably aren't drinking, right?

[00:02:05] Well you never know when they listen to this.

[00:02:07] It could be.

[00:02:10] Real estate and real estate finance that I'm in, it definitely can be a high pressure

[00:02:16] game.

[00:02:17] So the fact that you've got a sense of humor and you can get up on stage and

[00:02:20] laugh about things is certainly helpful and something for me to aspire to.

[00:02:26] So I'm excited about that.

[00:02:27] But anyway, so I want to dive into a lot of things because you're in some unique

[00:02:33] areas in the commercial space and we have a lot of folks looking to invest in different

[00:02:38] areas on commercial.

[00:02:39] But before we get into that, bring us up to speed quickly on how did you get

[00:02:43] into the commercial space and do all you've done to this point?

[00:02:46] What was that quick journey for you like?

[00:02:50] To get to 60 seconds maybe, when I was in school I worked during the day and I got

[00:02:55] a job renting apartments.

[00:02:57] When I was 18 they taught me how to renovate and manage apartment buildings.

[00:03:02] And then right before I turned 20 a bigger company hired me and I ran their

[00:03:07] property management company and started selling apartments at 19.

[00:03:11] And at 22 came a commission only salesperson and focused mainly at that time on

[00:03:16] apartments and then built a really nice practice of selling multifamily in

[00:03:22] Atlanta and then started Bull Realty.

[00:03:25] So I'd have a company named Known for Integrity and started that and then that

[00:03:31] grew and now kind of got, you know, and I started the show in Atlanta on one

[00:03:37] radio station in 2010 and started that our first show was on commercial loan

[00:03:43] workouts and I remember doing that show and when I left out of the studio I was

[00:03:47] like wow, this would be really valuable for a lot of people around the country.

[00:03:51] And so we started actually telling people about the show and it grew.

[00:03:56] And then three, four years ago I started did some video training for brokers in

[00:04:02] front of a live audience with three cameras and started putting that out.

[00:04:07] And so brokers around the country licensed those video training systems and

[00:04:12] they're in the cloud so they're kind of easy to use.

[00:04:14] And so that's kind of how I got where I am.

[00:04:19] Oh, that's neat. So kind of but did you grow up saying I want to be in

[00:04:24] commercial real estate my whole life or just it just kind of fell into when

[00:04:27] you're 18 with the apartment thing?

[00:04:29] You know, I thought I wanted to go into law and then, you know, the law

[00:04:35] seemed like a lot of arguing and fighting and a lot of research.

[00:04:38] And I realized I liked dealing with people and every day I think dealing

[00:04:43] with people is very fun.

[00:04:45] And in commercial real estate, we're still dealing with people.

[00:04:48] Right. So when I started renting the apartments and I kind of got a lucky

[00:04:52] break there to get that job and when I started realizing just helping

[00:04:56] landlords and tenants and stuff that how fun that was, you know,

[00:04:59] just that's how it started.

[00:05:01] I enjoy and I still enjoy doing deals today.

[00:05:05] Do I do a lot of transaction work personally for clients?

[00:05:08] And it's way more fun than running a business.

[00:05:13] Yeah, yes.

[00:05:14] It's you know, everyone wants to be the business owner, the entrepreneur.

[00:05:18] We talk about building the business instead of working in the business.

[00:05:21] But a lot of times those entrepreneurs start as that technician working in the

[00:05:26] business. And it's because you're doing something that you're either

[00:05:28] really gifted at or that you love doing.

[00:05:30] Right. And but but at some point you realize, OK, well, there's only 24

[00:05:34] hours in the day if I just do this.

[00:05:36] Now I'm trading time for dollars.

[00:05:38] I don't really have a business.

[00:05:40] But as you grow, I had a business and I grew it to the point where I was

[00:05:44] pretty much separated completely from that original work.

[00:05:48] And at some point you do feel a little distant.

[00:05:52] Right. So to get your hand and stay involved in all that you love and

[00:05:55] have a business seems like a pretty amazing place to be.

[00:06:00] Yeah, it's fun. We've gotten big enough now when we have folks that

[00:06:03] really run marketing and run the business.

[00:06:05] And so I'm able to really help clients and our brokers do deals.

[00:06:09] And yeah, it's fun.

[00:06:11] I'm enjoying it.

[00:06:12] Yeah, no, that's awesome. Awesome.

[00:06:14] OK, so switching into what's going on in your your headquartered in

[00:06:19] Atlanta, but you really focus most of your business in the

[00:06:22] southeastern states.

[00:06:24] I think you're eight or nine different states down there.

[00:06:27] And so you and you've been around for a while.

[00:06:29] So you mentioned workouts in 2010.

[00:06:34] And I know there are some sectors right now that that there's some talk

[00:06:38] about maybe that particularly office and so forth.

[00:06:41] And so interesting how history can repeat itself in some areas

[00:06:46] and the different areas.

[00:06:48] Can you address a little bit sort of at a high level,

[00:06:53] since you're in many different asset classes from an investor

[00:06:57] standpoint, what do you see happening now and in the next several years?

[00:07:04] To the commercial space and in context with your experience in the past,

[00:07:09] since you've been around for a while again, you've seen some cycles.

[00:07:11] You went through 2010 to the Great Recession and all that.

[00:07:15] And you got started, I'm thinking, in the late 90s.

[00:07:17] Is that about right?

[00:07:19] Really late 80s, late 80s, late 80s.

[00:07:22] OK, OK.

[00:07:25] I went through a recession really early on when Freddie Mac became

[00:07:28] the largest apartment owner in the country.

[00:07:30] Yeah, it was my first one.

[00:07:32] So then through several downturns.

[00:07:35] OK, so you've seen the cycles, the boom and the bust and that sort of thing.

[00:07:39] So with your experience and with all the, you know,

[00:07:43] the world, the state of the world we're in now, what do you see?

[00:07:48] Yeah, well, when people ask me that are not in commercial real estate

[00:07:52] about the cycles, I suggest or ask me about the market,

[00:07:56] I suggest to them this, if you're at a cocktail party

[00:07:59] and everyone's talking about how great real estate is

[00:08:02] and they're flipping contracts and, you know, all of this, it's time to sell.

[00:08:08] If the cocktail party they're talking about, oh, office is terrible.

[00:08:11] Everybody's you know, it's a terrible market.

[00:08:14] You should be buying.

[00:08:15] So that's the first advice to tell people, contriving,

[00:08:18] investing and making moves.

[00:08:21] But, you know, I think this downturn is is real.

[00:08:25] It's not like the 2009.

[00:08:28] It's not that bad.

[00:08:29] You know, the economy is better.

[00:08:31] There's a lot more liquidity.

[00:08:33] There's lower debt to debt ratios.

[00:08:37] It's a different market, but there is a lot of distress

[00:08:41] and a lot of folks that had, you know,

[00:08:43] adjustable rate mortgages are coming to,

[00:08:48] you know, doubling their interest rates.

[00:08:49] And so there's a lot of properties that that are in trouble.

[00:08:52] There's a lot of banks selling notes

[00:08:55] and they're selling them in packages or individually to pretty big groups.

[00:09:00] And and then some of the banks and some of those groups

[00:09:03] are actually starting to work through and do some foreclosures.

[00:09:06] So we're already working on foreclosures in senior housing,

[00:09:11] multifamily hotel, industrial, believe it or not,

[00:09:16] and then a lot of office.

[00:09:18] So we're seeing some distress in the market.

[00:09:21] But I think folks want to be careful and realize that,

[00:09:25] you know, the market is different for every market,

[00:09:28] city, sub market in every building.

[00:09:31] Right. You can have two identical buildings across the street.

[00:09:33] One could be distressed and one would be very valuable

[00:09:37] based on that on the tenant and the lease. Right.

[00:09:39] So we're seeing a lot of property types are doing really well.

[00:09:42] Retail's doing well.

[00:09:44] Industrial's doing well for the most part.

[00:09:48] Office is the big office buildings

[00:09:52] with big spaces in the big larger downtowns are suffering.

[00:09:56] But a lot of the office is doing well.

[00:09:58] Medical office is doing well.

[00:09:59] Government lease office is doing well, which we sell both of those.

[00:10:03] And then if you look at multifamily multifamily's done well.

[00:10:07] The only challenge there seems to be rents that were going up so fast.

[00:10:11] Some markets 10 percent a year, which was crazy. Right.

[00:10:15] And now there's a recovery.

[00:10:16] There's a correction there, if you will. Right.

[00:10:19] So a lot of the rents are kind of stabilizing it,

[00:10:21] depending on what market you're in.

[00:10:23] So if you had investors who who underwrote really high

[00:10:29] rental increases every year and didn't underwrite a rate increase

[00:10:32] on their mortgage, some of that's going to be problematic,

[00:10:35] but they're going to put a lot of cash in.

[00:10:37] So I think it really depends on the market.

[00:10:39] In Atlanta, where we're headquartered,

[00:10:41] I got a building right now we just put on the market for a bank yesterday

[00:10:45] that get this is seventy three thousand square feet.

[00:10:47] And you can get it for fifty seven dollars a foot.

[00:10:50] Now, I'm not talking about renting it.

[00:10:52] I'm talking about owning it.

[00:10:53] And it's completely about that.

[00:10:54] I mean, it's not bad space. It's on a pond.

[00:10:57] It's in a good area.

[00:10:58] So it's a pretty crazy time.

[00:11:00] But then we've got some small office buildings, you know,

[00:11:03] that we're getting 400 or more a foot for that are in good areas and smaller.

[00:11:08] So it seems like the smaller the building,

[00:11:11] the less problematic it is. Right.

[00:11:13] And then users, you know, typically most users are buying the smaller buildings

[00:11:19] anyway. And so that keeps that market stronger than these big office

[00:11:24] towers who are really having some struggles and price reductions.

[00:11:29] And do you think that the office tower situations

[00:11:32] really stemmed from the covid revolution? Right.

[00:11:35] People working from home and then not wanting to go back

[00:11:39] to work into the building.

[00:11:40] And if I can, you know, if I can work from my house or maybe even relocate

[00:11:44] somewhere to the beach or somewhere nicer and still, you know, commute in

[00:11:47] versus versus coming into the space.

[00:11:50] Is that is that the primary driver or there are other drivers on that?

[00:11:53] Would you say that's the primary driver?

[00:11:55] And of course, every property type is dealing with the rapid increase,

[00:11:58] which I think was too rapid by the Fed.

[00:12:00] If you're listening to that,

[00:12:02] the but you know, that so everyone's dealing with that

[00:12:07] with every property type. So that's compounding the problem.

[00:12:10] But yes, and it's going to take a little while for office to recover.

[00:12:14] I do think it does recover.

[00:12:16] I think, you know, we're human beings.

[00:12:18] We tend to think about the world is based on what we're seeing

[00:12:22] and dealing with right now.

[00:12:24] And I think office will recover.

[00:12:26] There'll be a lot of buildings torn down.

[00:12:28] There'll be a lot of buildings converted to other uses.

[00:12:31] New supply will stop.

[00:12:33] And then demand will continue to grow,

[00:12:36] and especially markets like the Sunbelt in Atlanta.

[00:12:39] So, you know, office values and performance will improve.

[00:12:44] The question is, how long does it take?

[00:12:46] And in certain properties are certainly doing really, really well.

[00:12:50] It's interesting. My daughter talking to her last night,

[00:12:53] she's in environmental economics and she was working from home

[00:12:57] or from anywhere, and she really loved it.

[00:12:59] And tell me how much she's loved it since Covid.

[00:13:01] I talked to her last night.

[00:13:02] She says, oh, we got new office space.

[00:13:04] It's got this great food. So cool.

[00:13:06] I try to go in every day. They'll let me now.

[00:13:08] I'm like, OK, that's kind of the answer.

[00:13:10] You know, it's like office space has to be inviting

[00:13:14] and the office buildings and guys running businesses

[00:13:17] and everyone that, you know, we're grim

[00:13:21] and just not attractive places to be.

[00:13:23] You know, a lot of that's going to have to go away.

[00:13:25] No matter what the class of your building in space,

[00:13:29] you want to make it nice and make it comfortable

[00:13:31] in a place people really want to be.

[00:13:34] So, yeah, I mean, people are really in,

[00:13:36] I guess you could say the experience economy, right?

[00:13:38] I mean, it's come around in the last, you know,

[00:13:40] I don't know how many years, but people want

[00:13:42] they'll pay for experience in many cases

[00:13:45] more than an asset per se.

[00:13:48] And I have a great friend who owns a it's an office.

[00:13:54] It's not just a furnishing company,

[00:13:56] but they design the interior spaces of these buildings

[00:13:59] and then they provide the, you know, all of the accoutrement

[00:14:03] that goes in. And that's what he says is like

[00:14:05] they're all trying to create this experience.

[00:14:08] And I think I remember hearing the first time

[00:14:11] and he was talking about, you know,

[00:14:12] hear about the Googles and the apples of the world

[00:14:14] putting in these like meditation pods

[00:14:17] and, you know, the sushi stations

[00:14:19] and things like that, right?

[00:14:21] Because I think the younger generation

[00:14:23] also has this expectation that they want,

[00:14:25] they want, you know, things at that level, right?

[00:14:28] I'm not sure about, you know,

[00:14:29] my generation as much cares about it,

[00:14:31] although we do like nice things and nice experiences,

[00:14:34] but that is interesting.

[00:14:36] And so you think that will pull people back in.

[00:14:38] Do you think it's gonna be to the level it was before

[00:14:42] in terms of, you know,

[00:14:43] hey, we're gonna need you here five days a week

[00:14:45] or it's gonna be the flex thing.

[00:14:46] And so that's gonna change maybe the space requirements

[00:14:49] that companies are gonna have.

[00:14:51] Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of hybrid models

[00:14:53] then be more work from home,

[00:14:55] but more and more we're seeing companies

[00:14:57] that realize it benefits a lot of their employees

[00:15:01] and their company to have people together.

[00:15:05] And so a lot of these companies are really investing

[00:15:07] in their office space, if that's what they use

[00:15:10] to get folks in and have them wanna be there

[00:15:13] because the economies,

[00:15:14] we sold so many office buildings around the country

[00:15:17] during COVID and a lot of that work from home

[00:15:19] and like the groups that we're dealing with

[00:15:20] that were buying, selling lenders, attorneys,

[00:15:24] you know, the work from home is just,

[00:15:26] there was a stark difference between the economics

[00:15:30] and efficiency of dealing with the groups

[00:15:31] that were working from anywhere in home

[00:15:33] and working with people and groups

[00:15:35] that were in an office together,

[00:15:36] just things went faster and easier.

[00:15:39] So I think more and more you'll see people,

[00:15:42] you know, wanna be back in their office

[00:15:44] and wanna be together.

[00:15:44] And you know, some people have suffered,

[00:15:47] you know, from being alone and being in one place

[00:15:50] and not having another place to go to

[00:15:52] and get dressed up to go, right?

[00:15:54] See other people so it'll come back,

[00:15:57] but yeah, the demand won't be as high as it was

[00:16:01] percentage wise.

[00:16:02] I think a lot of folks might go to four day weeks

[00:16:04] or you know, three day weeks

[00:16:06] and pretend we're working on Mondays and Fridays at home.

[00:16:10] But you know, I, yeah.

[00:16:14] I said on my show, look,

[00:16:16] I've got the solution to all of this.

[00:16:18] Let's just go to a flat four day work week

[00:16:22] and say, all right, we'll just pay for Friday.

[00:16:24] We know you're not gonna work from home anyway,

[00:16:25] just take the whole day off.

[00:16:27] That's just too fake.

[00:16:29] Well, you know, it's funny cause my wife,

[00:16:31] she went back to work after our daughter

[00:16:33] went off to school and everything

[00:16:34] and she was kind of bored.

[00:16:36] And so she's got a four day work week

[00:16:39] and she just negotiated that upfront.

[00:16:40] She's like, yeah, I'll work,

[00:16:41] but I'm only gonna drive five miles.

[00:16:44] It's actually 95 miles, five minutes from the house

[00:16:46] and only four days.

[00:16:48] So she's like, it's great because you know,

[00:16:51] the Friday you're just kind of adjusting to not working.

[00:16:54] It used to be your Saturday

[00:16:55] and then you've got a Saturday

[00:16:57] where it's like, you're really off, right?

[00:16:59] And then Sunday you might be sort of gearing back up.

[00:17:02] And so I think studies have proven the four days

[00:17:07] you can be more effective than in five.

[00:17:09] Particularly if you have like task or target related goals,

[00:17:13] your output related or driven

[00:17:15] versus necessarily time for dollar

[00:17:17] kind of the industrial model, right?

[00:17:19] Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:17:21] When I was a young man

[00:17:22] and I was studying all the top producers

[00:17:24] and commercial brokers around the country

[00:17:26] and what they do.

[00:17:27] And I was working five days a week, probably 11 hours.

[00:17:31] I was working Saturdays most of the day

[00:17:33] and occasionally working some on Sundays.

[00:17:36] And I was studying these top brokers around the country

[00:17:40] and I noticed that a lot of them had times

[00:17:42] where they took time off and did this and did that.

[00:17:45] And so I went, you know what?

[00:17:46] I'm gonna start taking off Friday at 5 p.m.

[00:17:49] And I'm not gonna do any work till Monday at 9 a.m.

[00:17:53] I've got a lake home and a boat

[00:17:55] and hot tub and motorcycle start.

[00:17:58] I'm just gonna have fun on the weekends.

[00:18:00] And to your point, my income increased significantly

[00:18:04] because it was those five days I was working,

[00:18:06] I still did 11 hours.

[00:18:07] I just love this business.

[00:18:08] It's fun, but I was working more efficiently.

[00:18:13] It's like about to go on vacation.

[00:18:15] And that was a vacation to me to be off that long.

[00:18:17] I just wasn't used to it.

[00:18:19] And so yeah,

[00:18:20] so I was more efficient with my time during the week.

[00:18:23] So that's a good point.

[00:18:25] Yeah, well, someone says, yeah,

[00:18:27] if you could pretend every Friday is the next day

[00:18:30] you're going on vacation and you wrap it up, right?

[00:18:32] I mean, so it'd be interesting to see where that goes.

[00:18:35] I mean, no crystal balls here,

[00:18:37] but I think we might be better off as a result of it

[00:18:41] as a society.

[00:18:43] So switching gears a little bit back to this idea

[00:18:46] of you started your radio show

[00:18:50] with buying distressed notes,

[00:18:53] or it was in the distressed or the workout situation

[00:18:56] back in 2010.

[00:18:58] And I know you mentioned that we're in a distressed area

[00:19:02] now with some properties,

[00:19:03] which creates opportunity for a lot of people.

[00:19:06] And so the people that are doing well

[00:19:09] are always looking for great opportunities, right?

[00:19:11] A lot of our investors.

[00:19:12] So talk a little bit about the banks selling notes

[00:19:16] and some of these REO properties and so forth.

[00:19:18] How does somebody get involved at a level

[00:19:22] where they're not a big venture capital fund or whatever,

[00:19:24] but they're an investor and they're like,

[00:19:25] hey, this does make sense to me.

[00:19:27] I wanna buy into part of this

[00:19:30] and ride the upside

[00:19:32] because you've got the stock market is one thing

[00:19:35] but the real estate is something you can put your hands on

[00:19:37] you can touch and it's not going anywhere.

[00:19:41] Yeah, well buying notes needs to be for very experienced

[00:19:44] folks that have done that because it's not that simple.

[00:19:49] You don't get the due diligence on the collateral

[00:19:52] with a real estate as much and you don't get,

[00:19:55] you typically have to pay all cash

[00:19:58] and close extremely quickly.

[00:19:59] And there's always a chance even if you're foreclosed

[00:20:02] that you could get only what you paid for the note back

[00:20:07] and lose everything else.

[00:20:08] So I think I would leave that toward the funds

[00:20:12] and groups that have a lot of experience in it.

[00:20:15] But as far as the everyday investor,

[00:20:17] I think just having relationships with brokers

[00:20:21] like us around the country

[00:20:22] that do a lot of foreclosure work

[00:20:25] they work for a lot of banks

[00:20:27] and just getting those relationships

[00:20:30] and be out looking for those properties,

[00:20:32] know what the rents are in the market you're looking

[00:20:35] and know what the sales comps are.

[00:20:38] Brokers like us help them, give them that information.

[00:20:42] We want our buyers to be very intelligent about the market

[00:20:45] so they can make decisions and make them correctly

[00:20:49] and make them quickly,

[00:20:50] especially when it comes to foreclosed.

[00:20:52] Some of our foreclosed properties will sell

[00:20:55] within a week or week and a half

[00:20:57] and get multiple competing offers.

[00:21:00] So just get those relationships, keep looking,

[00:21:03] make sure you know how you're gonna fund it

[00:21:06] and be ready to go.

[00:21:09] And when you look at something like that,

[00:21:11] foreclosure opportunity,

[00:21:12] you're really considering the Stephen Covey model.

[00:21:17] But you know your exit plan when you're going in.

[00:21:19] I mean, consider start with the end in mind.

[00:21:21] What are we gonna do with this property?

[00:21:23] You're gonna hold it, you're gonna lease it up.

[00:21:24] What's the plan?

[00:21:26] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:28] And if you're a user that becomes easier, I guess.

[00:21:31] You're gonna use it and that's what mainly matters.

[00:21:34] But yeah, I think the exit should be planned

[00:21:38] in the beginning as much as it can.

[00:21:40] So absolutely understand how you're gonna manage it.

[00:21:44] If there's CapEx, capital expenditures that need

[00:21:47] to be done, what are the best folks to do that?

[00:21:49] What should you do?

[00:21:51] Sometimes engaging an asset manager,

[00:21:54] someone that knows the properties

[00:21:55] and knows how to do those things can be helpful.

[00:21:57] We've got some companies that pay us 1% of their rents

[00:22:01] and we look at their statements every month,

[00:22:03] look at the market and help them with CapEx decisions,

[00:22:07] leasing decisions, financing decisions, selling decisions.

[00:22:11] Yeah, just go through all that

[00:22:13] and just make sure that you have expertise,

[00:22:16] you have contacts to help you.

[00:22:18] I think where I've seen folks fail either

[00:22:21] as investors or business owners is when we think

[00:22:24] we know it all, we're too smart

[00:22:25] and we don't wanna engage professionals to help us.

[00:22:29] Some of the, I've had clients that,

[00:22:32] how do I put this?

[00:22:34] They weren't the most experienced,

[00:22:35] smartest people in the world,

[00:22:37] but they knew to get good people to help them

[00:22:40] and are just extremely successful

[00:22:42] getting the right team around you.

[00:22:44] Yeah, well I think Henry Ford said that, right?

[00:22:47] When he went on trial many years ago,

[00:22:49] he's like, I don't know the answer

[00:22:50] to these questions you're asking me,

[00:22:52] but I can hit the button on my desk

[00:22:54] and bring the guy in who knows the answer

[00:22:56] to that question, right?

[00:22:58] And if I know who to ask, right?

[00:23:01] Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:02] Dan Sullivan just gave it.

[00:23:04] Go ahead.

[00:23:05] We had a client contact us yesterday

[00:23:07] that was brought to,

[00:23:10] broker brought him an office bill in the buy

[00:23:12] and he wants to buy it.

[00:23:14] And so he engaged us to come in

[00:23:16] and help him with the contract,

[00:23:18] with negotiations, with the setup management,

[00:23:23] the lease comps, sales comps,

[00:23:24] financing everything, right?

[00:23:26] And yeah, you have something with that experience

[00:23:28] is tremendous value.

[00:23:30] So sometimes we get pulled in as example of folks

[00:23:33] that they've already found property

[00:23:35] and they engage us to support them.

[00:23:37] Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:38] I mean, we tell people, we focus a lot,

[00:23:42] my firm on helping smaller businesses

[00:23:45] buy the owner occupied space

[00:23:47] that they run their business out of.

[00:23:49] And what I tell them is,

[00:23:52] this is these commercial transactions,

[00:23:55] I mean, you might buy and sell a bunch of resident,

[00:23:57] personal homes in your lifetime,

[00:23:58] but when you start getting commercial,

[00:24:01] buying a building or investing

[00:24:03] in investment commercial real estate,

[00:24:05] it's a different world.

[00:24:07] And you've already said a lot of things

[00:24:08] in terms of, you could have one building

[00:24:10] right across the street from the other building

[00:24:12] and one is a fantastic investment

[00:24:14] and one is a dog.

[00:24:16] And there's a lot to know about it

[00:24:18] and there's a lot of minds in the field.

[00:24:21] And so that's what I tell people is like,

[00:24:24] you really need to get good insight

[00:24:26] and experience and guidance

[00:24:28] because you can't really afford

[00:24:30] to make too many big mistakes.

[00:24:32] And I appreciate what you said about note buying

[00:24:34] is the same thing.

[00:24:35] It's like, you got to really know what you're doing

[00:24:36] because you could seriously injure your financial future

[00:24:41] by making a bad decision, right?

[00:24:44] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:24:45] And to your point,

[00:24:47] when people ask me about engaging a broker

[00:24:49] for various things,

[00:24:51] we have folks in every property type

[00:24:53] and I've been doing here in our group

[00:24:54] and we've been doing this a long time.

[00:24:56] I see investors and owner occupants,

[00:24:59] what they do.

[00:25:00] And if you're ever going to engage a broker

[00:25:04] exclusively to do something,

[00:25:06] the best time to do that

[00:25:07] and you should do it every time

[00:25:09] is when you're a user looking to lease or buy space.

[00:25:12] I think it's really imperative

[00:25:14] that you have an experienced tenant buyer rep

[00:25:16] on your side

[00:25:17] that's helping you through the whole process.

[00:25:19] So you can continue to run your business

[00:25:21] and get that advice.

[00:25:23] So maybe you can sell a building without a broker.

[00:25:26] I wouldn't recommend it.

[00:25:28] You can definitely buy buildings and things

[00:25:30] directly from brokers.

[00:25:32] And if you're an investor

[00:25:33] and you have the experience,

[00:25:34] most of them want to go directly to the listing agent.

[00:25:38] But if you're a user,

[00:25:40] I would always hire a broker

[00:25:41] even if I have to engage them separately,

[00:25:44] just tremendous value.

[00:25:46] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[00:25:48] I couldn't concur more.

[00:25:49] And then the other thing that I see too

[00:25:53] in the commercial versus residential

[00:25:54] is particularly with the owner users

[00:25:57] that are new to the space,

[00:25:59] everyone knows a real estate agent, right?

[00:26:02] But most of them are residential.

[00:26:05] And then in the residential space,

[00:26:06] a small percentage are really good

[00:26:08] and there's a whole lot of them out there

[00:26:09] that are part-time or whatever.

[00:26:11] And so I always tell them,

[00:26:12] make sure you find a really good commercial

[00:26:15] real estate agent or brokerage

[00:26:17] that you can work with

[00:26:17] because you guys know the market differently.

[00:26:20] You understand things

[00:26:21] that the residential guys don't know, right?

[00:26:23] And correct me if I'm wrong,

[00:26:25] but from my observation and understanding, Michael,

[00:26:28] and experience,

[00:26:29] that there's a market,

[00:26:33] you guys have a much better relationship

[00:26:35] with other agents and brokers in your market.

[00:26:38] You guys are always talking

[00:26:39] and I won't say horse trading,

[00:26:41] but it's a smaller community, right,

[00:26:44] than on the residential side.

[00:26:45] And so just by having that small community,

[00:26:48] the intelligence and information level is so much higher

[00:26:51] than someone going to LoopNet or whatever

[00:26:54] and trying to find a residential agent,

[00:26:56] trying to find a building per se for one of their clients.

[00:27:00] Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a good point.

[00:27:03] Residential agents doing commercials

[00:27:06] sometimes be transaction risk is high for them

[00:27:10] and for their clients.

[00:27:12] And they really should disclose their experience level,

[00:27:15] especially if they have none,

[00:27:17] to the client before they get involved in that.

[00:27:20] And as the client, sure, I'd recommend

[00:27:22] that you find somebody that's really good and specialized

[00:27:25] in what you want to do.

[00:27:27] For example, when I talk to somebody,

[00:27:30] tell them to get in the business

[00:27:31] or deal with brokers,

[00:27:32] and they say, well, what's that broker do?

[00:27:35] Even in commercial, well, he does everything.

[00:27:38] Jack of all trades, master of none.

[00:27:40] All right, well, if you're doing a little small deal

[00:27:42] and they're familiar with that market,

[00:27:43] that might be fine.

[00:27:46] But if you're in a larger market

[00:27:47] and it's a larger transaction to you,

[00:27:49] you may want to look for someone

[00:27:51] who specializes in the property type.

[00:27:53] Like most of our brokers here,

[00:27:55] they only do monthly family,

[00:27:56] or they only do senior housing,

[00:27:58] or they only do self-storage.

[00:27:59] They only do land and developer services.

[00:28:02] So to your point, they know the market,

[00:28:05] they know the players,

[00:28:07] they have respect from the owners and the other brokers.

[00:28:10] So when we call on somebody,

[00:28:12] already has that level of respect

[00:28:16] because they're dealing with a broker with a good name.

[00:28:19] It's a real commercial real estate company name,

[00:28:22] and that broker is specialized

[00:28:23] and the other parties know that.

[00:28:25] And they know they know the market,

[00:28:27] we know the mines in the field.

[00:28:30] We know the MO,

[00:28:31] method of operation of all the buyers.

[00:28:34] We know all the owners.

[00:28:35] When we specialize in one sector,

[00:28:37] we become very valuable and efficient,

[00:28:40] and that's important to the clients.

[00:28:43] Yeah, well, the analogy that comes to mind

[00:28:45] when you're talking about that is,

[00:28:47] getting legal representation.

[00:28:49] I know you talked about considering law school

[00:28:51] at one point in your early career.

[00:28:53] And it's like,

[00:28:56] it's this idea of showing up in court,

[00:28:58] representing yourself because,

[00:29:00] you're just righteously indignant about something

[00:29:04] you've already lost in 95% of the time

[00:29:07] because the judges and the lawyers are all,

[00:29:10] they all know each other.

[00:29:11] And I won't call it a good old boys club

[00:29:14] because there's a lot of gals in there too,

[00:29:15] but there is this mutual respect

[00:29:17] and they expect a professional to represent.

[00:29:21] And then, again, going even deeper in that area,

[00:29:24] if it's a specific type of a court instance,

[00:29:28] whether it's real estate or criminal

[00:29:30] or civil or whatever,

[00:29:32] you could have Vinny from,

[00:29:34] or my cousin Vinny, the lawyer representing you

[00:29:38] who just kinda didn't even make his way

[00:29:41] through law school,

[00:29:42] kinda maybe graduated and barely,

[00:29:44] but passed the bar or not.

[00:29:46] Or you could have someone

[00:29:47] who's highly specialized and competent

[00:29:49] in that specific area

[00:29:50] and it just changes the game when you show up.

[00:29:52] I mean, and how you show up

[00:29:54] makes all the difference in the negotiation

[00:29:56] and what terms you're gonna end up with

[00:29:58] at the end of the day.

[00:29:59] And also someone who I think from a representation

[00:30:06] standpoint has the ability and the experience

[00:30:09] and enough success to say,

[00:30:12] maybe this isn't a good deal for you.

[00:30:14] Part of my representation is like,

[00:30:16] let's talk through why you wanna do this

[00:30:18] and now versus what not.

[00:30:21] Yeah, I've had several people thank me

[00:30:23] that engaged me to buy properties

[00:30:26] where when I got involved

[00:30:28] and did the due diligence and things,

[00:30:29] I told them not to.

[00:30:31] And it's interesting you get that call back

[00:30:33] in six months or two years ago, thank you.

[00:30:36] Thank you.

[00:30:37] Yeah.

[00:30:37] Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:38] You didn't just try to get commissioned.

[00:30:40] Yeah, I know.

[00:30:41] It's like, well,

[00:30:42] and maybe it's their wife calling you, right?

[00:30:43] Saying thank you, you didn't let them do that

[00:30:45] because when you see him at the lake

[00:30:48] on your boat or whatever.

[00:30:49] But no, I mean, it's a matter of integrity

[00:30:51] and if you have deep roots,

[00:30:53] then you're gonna do the right thing.

[00:30:56] And for you putting your name on the company,

[00:30:59] obviously is critical because your name is out there.

[00:31:01] But that's the type of person you should look for

[00:31:05] because it's the real deal, right?

[00:31:09] I mean, you're making long-term decisions

[00:31:11] and they impact generally not just yourself

[00:31:14] but your family if you have a business,

[00:31:16] your employees, your staff and all that

[00:31:18] and you wanna make the best decision possible.

[00:31:21] Nobody has a crystal ball

[00:31:22] but put yourself in a position to win, right?

[00:31:26] I agree.

[00:31:27] And if you're a broker,

[00:31:28] we call all commercial agents brokers

[00:31:30] for some reason it's slang.

[00:31:31] But if you're a broker,

[00:31:32] I think doing what's right for the client

[00:31:35] and the customer treating everyone

[00:31:37] the way you wanna be treated.

[00:31:38] Become very, very studied in your market

[00:31:42] and in your sector and in your service

[00:31:44] and give people advice and do enough prospecting

[00:31:47] that you're not chasing commissions.

[00:31:49] You can give good advice

[00:31:51] when they shouldn't buy or lease, you're telling them.

[00:31:55] Because this business,

[00:31:56] repeat it, the referrals and the repeat businesses

[00:32:00] is fantastic.

[00:32:01] It's not like homes, you sell a house to someone

[00:32:04] maybe they're there 10 years, I don't know.

[00:32:06] But in this business,

[00:32:08] you close a deal and the next minute they're gonna,

[00:32:10] all right, what's next?

[00:32:11] If they're impressed with what you do

[00:32:13] and how you help them.

[00:32:14] So I think you wanna get very educated

[00:32:17] in your market and in your skill set

[00:32:20] to help them and add value.

[00:32:21] Yeah, nice, nice.

[00:32:23] That's awesome, Michael.

[00:32:24] Well, we're about out of time.

[00:32:26] This has been fantastic.

[00:32:27] So a couple of things.

[00:32:30] I wanna know how our listeners can find you

[00:32:33] if A, they're looking for some kind

[00:32:36] of commercial property help in the Southeast.

[00:32:39] Wanna hear about again, your URL for your training

[00:32:41] and also your show.

[00:32:43] Yeah, yeah, well thanks Paul.

[00:32:45] You can reach me at my email is an easy one.

[00:32:48] It's michael at bullrealti.com

[00:32:51] and then you can reach me through our website, Mike.

[00:32:54] It's funny people having their websites

[00:32:55] and they don't have their phone numbers

[00:32:57] or emails in them.

[00:32:58] It's like I have both.

[00:33:00] So bullrealti.com, you can find my contact

[00:33:04] and our shows on all the podcast sites

[00:33:06] and YouTube but the show website is CREshow.com

[00:33:11] for commercial real estate, CREshow.com

[00:33:14] and then the agent training is commercialagentsuccess.com

[00:33:20] and I think my contact information should be very easy

[00:33:23] to find on all three of those sites.

[00:33:25] Awesome, awesome.

[00:33:26] Well, this is great.

[00:33:27] We'll get in the show notes of course

[00:33:29] but this is fantastic.

[00:33:30] I really appreciate your perspective

[00:33:32] and again, your experience

[00:33:33] cause it means a lot someone is coming on

[00:33:35] that you've done a lot of really interesting things

[00:33:38] not just been successful as an agent

[00:33:40] but built a business itself

[00:33:41] and then some of the other things with the giving back

[00:33:44] with the training and the community and all that's just

[00:33:46] just awesome.

[00:33:48] Well, thank you Paul.

[00:33:49] Appreciate being on.

[00:33:50] Yeah, you bet.

[00:33:51] Have an amazing day.

[00:33:53] Thank you.

[00:33:54] You too.